Tags
Canada, Canadian National Anthem, Diana Schwenk, equality, Hump Day Chronicles, in all thy sons command, National Post, tradition, world issues
Oh brother!
I know, I know…
I may not be the most popular person for saying that I want our Canadian anthem to stay as it is.
But I am Canadian and entitled to my opinion.
For those who aren’t aware this is what is happening. A group of prominent women are starting a campaign to change the line ‘in all thy sons command’ to a more gender-neutral phrase adapted from the 1908 version of our Canadian anthem.
Apparently our anthem was changed to the version we have today in 1913 to honour the soldiers being deployed in WW I.
Personally I’ve never been offended with the line; just as I am not offended by the term mankind or mailman. Don’t get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect for the women who are starting this campaign.
But I like the traditional version. The version I sang at school. The version I sang in my Brownie Pack. The version we sing at hockey games. It’s what I grew up with. It reflects our history. It tells the story of our forefathers. It brings a tear to my eye every time I hear it – I am proud to be a Canadian.
I understand where the lady on the news is coming from when she says, “men wouldn’t stand for it if the line read ‘in all our daughter’s command’.” I can appreciate the woman on a talk show this morning who said. “Canada is diverse now. Many Canadians have come from other countries. Not everyone believes in G-O-D.”
Still If we change all thy sons and take God out of it. Maybe we also need to work on the line ‘our home and native land’ because a significant percentage of Canadians were not born in Canada. So… our home and chosen land?
I don’t know. I like our anthem. I think it should stay the same. It links us to our history. It holds a place in my heart.
There’s a whole whack of other stuff we need to worry about like the US government shutting down.
I mean that’s gotta affect cross-border shopping, right??? 😉
~ HUMP DAY CHRONICLES ~
O Canada we stand on guard for thee
Where do you stand on the proposed changes to the Canadian anthem?
Some content on this page was disabled on October 1, 2020 as a result of a DMCA takedown notice from Don Komarechka Photography. You can learn more about the DMCA here:
talktodiana 
Nice!
LikeLike
I think it should stay the same. It is what it was written as. ‘mankind’ is a word to define ‘all’ who live on this earth… I have never considered it gender specific. And to change all the words or phrases because of this is to me very unnecessary and somewhat plain and simply… ‘silly’ ….. What is next ‘The Bible’ where that is often used for the same reason… ? Diane
LikeLike
I agree. Messing with the way things were written kind of messes with history itself in my mind. Moving forward we can write in a way that reflects our time all that we want and let’s hope future generations leave it in tact to properly reflect what we believed, whether that is percieved as bad or good!
Diana
LikeLike
Couldn’t agree with you more Diana.
LikeLike
haha thanks!
LikeLike
You’re welcome and I mean it.
LikeLike
My Husbandand i love Canada and have travelled extennsively through the country. We know Montana, Just North of Wyoming. Don’t have a map handy.South of Manitoba?
LikeLike
Hi Barbara, I love traveling too! Montana is about 3 hours south of me. I’ve travelled down there from here (Calgary, Alberta) a few times! Wyoming borders the province of British Columbia, the next province west, and my favourite one in Canada for its sheer beauty! I hope you are treated well when visiting Canada. 🙂
LikeLike
I’m not Canadian – but I do think that most modern women are smart enough to know that they are included in masculine pronouns like mankind and even the line about sons – I fall on the side of history and tradition unless it creates actual discrimination. Today we have a right to be offended and to demand an apology without even understanding the intent of a statement. A nation honors it’s young people going off to war – in that day and age that meant young men – today it means young people – I can understand that without a pronoun change.
LikeLike
…unless it creates actual discrimination…I think you hammered the nail on the head there Lorri!
LikeLike
I’m standing over in the corner thinking, “Really? People are still doing the ‘personhole cover’ thing? Isn’t that so last century?” 😀
In that last century I had a high school English teacher who offered an A+ for the year to anyone who could come up with decent gender-neutral pronouns to replace ‘his’ and ‘her’. The problem is, they all come out sounding lame or forced, and language has a natural groove that resists such artificial forces.
But the awareness is a good thing, and there is a point where one can write in fairly gender-neutral terms while still sounding natural.
LikeLike
I’ve tried the whole (s)he (wo)man thing myself! So now I just intersperse he and hims and she hers. Thankfully English only has that issue with living things; THE or IT covers the rest unlike other languages…
LikeLike
I’ve seen science fiction writers tackle it when writing about the future. They create new pronouns to use… in one case humanity had diverged into five distinct genders, so the pronoun situation was downright crazy!
LikeLike
oh man! Life is complicated enough with two genders!
LikeLike
Sho Nuf!
LikeLike
haha I don’t even know what that means! nuf is enough, what’s Sho?
LikeLike
Sorry, California Beach Talk… “Sure Enough!”
LikeLike
Australia used to have the British national anthem. In 1984 there was a nationwide vote on three alternatives for an anthem of our own. “Advance Australia Fair” won. This was a song that had been around for about 80 years. The original song had the first line “Australia’s SONS let us rejoice” which was changed to “Australians ALL let us rejoice” when it became the anthem. But the original version is still in my head as we used to sing it at school.
Good for Canada having a charter of Freedom and Rights …. we don’t have one yet 🙂
Great discussion on this post.
LikeLike
I was thinking about countries that are part of the British Commonwealth and how long it takes to actually get around to having an anthem and charter of rights. Canada became a nation in 1867. In 1908, 41 years later an anthem is written, in 1939 it’s being used but not yet official. The search for a Canadian flag began in earnest in 1925 and we finally got one in 1965. In 1980, 113 years after we became a nation the anthem is made official and we get our Charter of Freedoms and Rights. Do all countries take this long?
LikeLike
Sadly so it seems. Australia is so backwards in some ways and so progressive in others. For example it was second to NZ to grant universal voting to women. Yest still no bill of rights.
LikeLike
I hadn’t heard about this – I’m with you, I really don’t think it should be changed. I think we all know and understand the diversity we as a nation have, without needing to reflect that in every word of the anthem. It could be a slippery slope if they start changing things like this – The entire song will be re-written if the aim is to make everyone happy.
I respect the perspective, but I also agree that there are other places our concentration could better serve.
Let’s…just…keep it the same, man, I mean people!
~Andrea<3
LikeLike
Thanks for chiming in Andrea. I’m actually amazed how long this is staying in the news!
LikeLike
I don’t know why countries like to change it’s anthem when so many people like the one they have, the same goes for changing the country’s flag we have people who bring up at times about changing our flag, I like our flag and can see no reason to change it………….if most Canadians like the anthem them have why change it
LikeLike
I don’t think Canada is ready to change it yet. The subject has come up before and the government checked with Canadians and they said no. It may change one day and I’m sure I’ll survive it. 🙂
LikeLike
I don’t think they should change the anthem. It is sort of a slippery slope, isn’t it? If they try to make it into something of total political correctness, I’m afraid we won’t recognize it anymore. But seriously, there are much bigger concerns in this country that need attention.
This discussion reminds me of something I heard recently, how it should be “our home ON native land”. I guess they have a point!
LikeLike
well I haven’t heard that one yet – good one! Changing the anthem aside. Regarding political correctness: Don’t you find that when we overyly concern ourselves with polical correctness in our writing, whether personally or for an organization, we sometimes render the writing benign in the sense that the impact of the message loses all power?
LikeLike
I’ve actually struggled with that very point as I was writing my novel’s first draft. I want it to read a certain way, but it did occur to me that some readers may interpret it as, not sexist, but something close to it, as young women being defined by their gender and sexuality and not by their individuality. Make sense? I hesitate to change it though, because dealing with gender issues is such a big part of a young woman’s coming of age.
LikeLike
I wouldn’t change it Jennifer. Over at my other blog I recently wrote that any criticism showed be viewed as an opportunity to start a conversation toward a mutual understanding. Imagine you are being interviewed about your book and the interviewer says Jennifer, critics are saying that your book blah blah blah…. and you have the opportunity to say…dealing with gender issues is such a big part of a young woman’s coming of age, etc…
LikeLike
Precisely! Glad you agree.
LikeLike
🙂 !
LikeLike
Since I’m not Canadian I probably shouldn’t weigh in, but the traditional version works for me.. . and I’m also okay with mailman, etc.
LikeLike
I hereby declare you an honourary Canadian and if you’re ever in Calgary I’ll see about getting you white-hatted!
http://www.visitcalgary.com/maps-tools/inside-guide/history-white-hat
LikeLike
Dear Diana, almost feel like saying …. Oh, Sister!!! why not, everything has to be identified clearly…..
I am in sync with you, even more than you may think!!!!!! As far as I can remember, in all English or French documents (he) will overpower and cover the identity of each and every person, being male or female…..maybe, depending on our beliefs, Adam was created first, or maybe it’s just to shorten documents. I remember when we had to write he/she….waste of paper and time…for all I am concerned….never questioned it, so much easier that way.
Not so long ago, I was with my grandson….and he was looking for his remote….of course today it is very hard to find the changing channel on the new TV’s……but he was looking high and low for the remote, so I started to giggle. He said, why are you laughing grandma and I said, what would you have done if you would have had to get up, change the channel every time you wanted it changed, had about 10 channels in all….and then play around with the stupid router to place it so the show was decent enough to watch. And he said, WHAT? And I said, that’s how it was in my days (God, I hate to say … my days…)…Now was revenge time, he was cracked up ….. laughing so hard, he hardly believed me, had to go ask his mom if this was true. I was amazed at how little the younger generation (he is 14), know nothing of our past…..not history, just TV’s and stuff…….
Can you imagine…..if they change the NATIONAL ANTHEM …… oh dear, what next…..yesterday on the news…..women, topless, were making a parade against…????? I won’t say, since there were many things and I don’t want to be critized for saying something wrong….but what are we showing our children…..that if you are against anything or everything, you can just… march down the road….. and scream and holler…..To me there are far greater issues than changing and adapting ourselves to immigrants, (again said in a kind way)….that move in and expect better treatment than in their countries and or but expect to go on as in their countries, where they weren’t aloud…but this is Canada….all is permitted…..
I am proud to be Canadian, and those men (they were men) fought to give us liberty…..my grandfather comes from Ireland and my grandmother comes from England, so I love immigrants, we (my family) wouldn’t be here to say, had it not been for them, but I have respect for the woman who nursed and worked hard to help our soldiers, but I bow in front of veterans, they should be up on a pedestal…..as far as I’m concerned. War is still on-going and will be on and on, if not one country, then the next….and we are sitting on our buns, thinking of changing Our National Anthem……give me a break.
Day in and day out, we sang in school, as above mentioned and I am proud of knowing my Anthem by heart and stand proud every time the occasion comes for me to sing it….these are our values, this has been in our hearts from day one….no way, I am not for this at all…….but I will not go topless on the street and scream it…..
Thanks Diana for giving us a chance to remember why we are so proud to be Canadians….
LikeLike
Hi Linda, it seems with every generation more and more changes (especially with technology) happen!
I love that Canada has so many diverse cultures. It’s one of the things that makes our country so beautiful. There are not many other places where one can sample cuisine from hundreds of countries and learn about other cultures right here in the homeland. As always, thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.
Diana
LikeLike
These are the sort of things that people all riled up. They just changed the Rutgers U. (state U of New Jersey) to make it less sexist and what an uproar– toying with tradition! We love Canada and keep saying we need to vacay there more. Sure hope US gov. gets its act together soon! What a mess.
LikeLike
I’m a sucker for tradition. I admit it. Lisa, if you ever come out west, you know up through Montana, please let me know – I would love to show you around my stomping grounds!
LikeLike
Hmmmmmm. Very interesting question. l’m with you entirely regarding the place of the anthem in my life. And I’m with you with respect to political correctness and how difficult it is to say something that would please everyone. I agree with you that these are just causes, but I don’t think our anthem needs to be a poster child for them. One thought I had though was that this anthem hasn’t always been our anthem. It became our official anthem in 1980! It has been the de facto anthem since 1939 according to Wikipedia. So perhaps it speaks to our generation and to what we think of as the founding principles and events. But does it speak to the current generation? Should a national anthem change to best represent all citizens as the nation evolves? I’ve no doubt it will change at some point in the future so now is as good a time as any. I just don’t believe this is the type of thing that warrants that change.
LikeLike
And we only got our Charter of Freedoms and Rights in 1980 as well! I am certainly learning a lot about our anthem and history!
I struggle with the idea of changing it. It feels like re-writing history. Having said that, I’m sure I’ll survive if or when changes are made but something tells me I will belt out the version I learned as a child anyway. 😉
LikeLike
Our anthem honors the men that battled for our country to make it one. I think we should honor them. If not for them we might be french or English anthems. So same with your anthem, honor those that played a fole in the forming or sustaining of your great country. Ask the ladiesin the movement, what have they done. I’ll trade you my anthem for your government!
LikeLike
Oh those ladies have done awesome things! I’ll have to give the trade proposal some thought – I’ll get back to you hahaha!
LikeLike
Interesting thoughts! Here in America, we’ve had issues with atheist contentions over the Pledge of Allegiance (which, unlike the more complex anthem, I actually know by heart, thanks to reciting it every morning in school). There is the phrase in this line: “And to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation UNDER GOD”…that sends atheists into a tizzy. There is also, In God We Trust on all our currency, among other things. Really, I think we forget that these songs and writings tell a story about us. Like Canada, the United States is a very young nation. But it has changed so much and is much more eclectic than it used to be. However, the traditions reflect the state of the nation as it was when the songs and traditions were developed. In the case of our God controversy…When the US was founded, it was (and still remains) a very Christian place. While it’s not a “Christian Nation” like say, Iran is as an Muslim State…we’re secular government-wise…the Christian religion was still engrained into the majority culture and so it’s reflected in the songs and proclamations…”one nation, under God”…”In God, we trust”…other references to God by our Founding Fathers, etc. I used to be much more against the idea of having anything associated with “God” in these things…but in recent years I’ve kind of moderated my views and think some traditions are just worth keeping. If we keep things in context…in this case, the context of the past…then the songs and phrases are much more understandable to modern folks than they might be otherwise.
LikeLike
I love how in times of trouble US presidents pray – it shows humility and it moves me deeply. Thank you for stopping by and sharing your experience in the USA. I guess our two countries began with diversity and these types of struggles and questions are to be expected?
LikeLike
“I guess our two countries began with diversity and these types of struggles and questions are to be expected?”
Yep, either that or developed the diversity later. I certainly have no problem with having greater inclusiveness in policy and all to reflect changes in the state of the country…although, even that can be controversial. But, sometimes a little tradition is good for a people.
By the way, I really enjoy Canada. I’m originally from Seattle, not far from the border. I’ve only spent the equivalent of a few days in Canada via British Columbia, but it always leaves a positive impression. I frankly wouldn’t mind living there if the opportunity arose. Hopefully you guys don’t have painfully silly government shutdowns like we do down here. LOL.
LikeLike
haha we practice thing like coalitions, lack of confidance and proroguing government (summer holidays I call it)
I’m glad you enjoy Canada, it’s nice to hear. I have travelled through many of the states and have always enjoyed meeting people there and have always been treated well. I’m old enough to remember that crossing the border used to be almost as easy as driving into another province. I miss those days. 🙂
LikeLike
Ha! The last time I traveled to Canada, it was that easy. Just a birth certificate got me in twice back in the 90s. Unfortunately the post-9/11 era pretty much ended that. Sad.
LikeLike
Yeah I know. Very sad.
LikeLike
I have to agree with bulldog on this. Why should a host country change their ways so much for people who move to it? Why must we be so politically correct that we scrub away that which attracted us to the place we live? It doesn’t make sense to me one bit. I’m American, and I’m proud to be American, but I live now in Canada and love Canada. I don’t push American ways or policies on anyone. I am here in CANADA now, I respect their ways and laws and customs and that’s how it should be. If I moved here and hated and wanted to change how Canada does things, well then I should move my butt back to America. Same goes for anyone else in my mind. Pretty soon we all will politically correct ourselves so much the countries will not be the countries they are anymore. Is this what we really want. As for changing the anthem, I myself think they shouldn’t. For the words ‘in all thy sons command’ doesn’t have to be literally defined. In my mind it ‘sons’ means all people not just men.That’s my opinion anyway.
LikeLike
There are two issues surfacing here it seems. One the issue of changing that line and Two political correctness in other issues that aren’t being addressed in this campaign.
I do struggle with how far the pendulum swings in the name of political correctness at times. Sometimes we’re too easily offended. That’s just my opinion. And there I would agree with you and Bulldog.
However I do understand and can appreciate how some feel that women are left out which has nothing to do with whether we are born here or have chosen Canada as our country. It has everything to do with our history as women; getting the right to vote, being recognized as persons, equality, etc, and being a huge part of our Canadian experience and history. So I understand. I’m just saying I already feel included and equal to men.
Loving this discussion! Thanks for chiming in.
xo
LikeLike
Not sure that I can comment on the changes to the Canadian Anthem… but it does bother me that all the history of our countries is being decimated by being politically correct… God, colour, nationalism, place of birth, why must things change when it has all become a part of the countries history… must Christmas now fall away, Easter are these still politically correct?? Should the Jews stop their holidays of Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur are they all politically correct.??
The Muslim communities, what of their Ramadan ??? I can in a way understand the gender controversy.. but I still question the fact that only in the last 20 odd years has it become easier to claim citizenship of another country, to move there and take up residence… but then for the host Nation to start changing all their past ways so as not to offend all the new citizens does not make sense to me… I question the scientists that say mankind all had their origin in say “Africa” (just choosing the first continent that came to mind) and then spread to the rest of the world… are we not all then in some way citizens of Canada or England or France etc… why we still have to apologize for our forefathers ways, or our history just astounds me… If I moved to Canada I feel it would be up to me to become a Canadian and accept their ways and not be offended by anything said or done that did not fall into my own way of thinking… or am I missing the boat here somewhere…???
LikeLike
(smiling) There definitely are times when I think along those lines as well bulldog, depending on the issue. I still say Merry Christmas and Happy Easter!
In the case of the anthem, the original version in 1908 said something like dost thou command and these prominent ladies are looking for a modern version of this. In 1913 it was changed to in all thy sons command for the reason I mentioned in the post. It is the only version I have ever known and maybe it’s sentimental for me I don’t know…we’re such a young country in comparison to others…I like that we are getting older, building tradition, establishing roots. I love history and knowing why the line reads as it does and how it lays the foundation of who we are…funny, I seem to be struggling to express myself here. 😉
LikeLike
I just received this via email from a friend and just loved it to such an extent that I have to share it with you in light of your post and my comment…
World’s Best Definition of Political Correctness.
There’s an annual contest at the Griffith University , Australia , calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.
This year’s term was “political correctness”. The winning student wrote:
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end”.
LikeLike
Wow that’s quite the definition! I’m not sure what is more amazing; the definition itself or the fact that it won! I’m guessing points are given when it’s written in contemporary language used by young adults?
LikeLike
I agree with Louise – I like the inclusiveness –
LikeLike
I totally understand! I guess I just already feel included?
LikeLike
and that is a good thing–if you are not unhappy then why complain?
LikeLike
(smiling) an excellent point.
xo
LikeLike
I almost wrote on this same subject Diana — and got distracted by my parking ire!
I actually do like “in all of us” — it feels more inclusive for me — and I like inclusivity. 🙂
LikeLike
It is a good argument, I appreciate your heart and motivation – I get it. I
‘m still stuck on the history and my connection to it. Also I fear if we make one change we will have to revisit this for many other future changes…you know like when they wanted to change the flag…by the way, I don’t want to change our flag either. 🙂
LikeLike
Hi Diana — how in all our progeny command ? would that be better 🙂
LikeLike
that would cover gender, place of birth and many other possible things — but no! Thanks though Bill! 😉
LikeLike
nestlings ?
LikeLike
sighing
LikeLike
spawn? I’m trying to help here 🙂
LikeLike
😉
LikeLike
puppies ?
LikeLike
LOL Bill what about the cats?
LikeLike
I got it… “Peeps”
LikeLike
haha I don’t often swear but…. 😉
LikeLike
can’t you hear it…. in Oh Canada ( which I hear in hockey games 🙂 ) – “your peeps stand on guard for you….”
LikeLike
in all your peeps command is what you meant to say! I used to think that ‘oh say can you see’ was ‘Jose can you see’ and wondered who Jose was…but that’s another story…
LikeLike
are you telling me that all these years I’ve wondered who Jose was in vain ???? 🙂
LikeLike
yes pretty much haha oh well think of all the free time you’ll have now! 😉
LikeLike